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cindy
Date: 2006-05-19 18:07
Subject: (no subject)
Security: Public
Mood:annoyedannoyed
someone informed the Live Jounal Abuse team my default icon is "inappropriate". i have to stop using it as my default icon by 23rd or my journal will be suspended. WTF!

i am REALLY pissed and i want to know who told them. tattle tales.


this is the message i recieved:


Dear LiveJournal user,

We have recently been made aware that your default userpic is inappropriate. As default userpics are displayed throughout LiveJournal, we require that they be appropriate for a general viewing audience. More detail regarding LiveJournal's requirements for default userpics is available at http://www.livejournal.com/support/faqbrowse.bml?faqid=111. As noted in the FAQ, you are welcome to continue using the image as a non-default userpic; however, we must request that you discontinue using it as your default by no later than 00:01 (midnight) EST 23 May 2006.

If at that time, you have not made the change requested, your journal will be suspended. If you are willing and able to change your default image, you will need to contact us with a date and time during which you would like your journal unsuspended. You will then be given 24 hours during which to make the changes requested. If after that time the changes have not been made, your journal will be permanently suspended.

We thank you for your swift cooperation in this matter.

Regards,
Eric
LiveJournal Abuse Team
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alseedus
User: alseedus
Date: 2006-05-19 15:09 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
WTF?!!!
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 15:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
agreed.
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R: feeding the babe
User: aftondays
Date: 2006-05-19 15:12 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:feeding the babe
Oh man...that's ridiculous! :P :P :P!!!
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Lucy
User: lucy_daisy
Date: 2006-05-19 15:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
The nursing one? What the heck?
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cindy: NIP
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 15:22 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:NIP
yep.

so i guess they won't like this one either.
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Trouble Me with Moonbeams
User: hushingdream
Date: 2006-05-19 15:17 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
This current one?
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 15:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
yep
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susie1998: The magic and madness of mirrors
User: susie1998
Date: 2006-05-19 15:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:The magic and madness of mirrors
Are you kidding Me?!?!?! It just goes to show you how anti-breastfeeding this world has become. I guess if you were flashing the screen it would be ok but having an icon that shows what they are actually used for is too "offensive". Are you friends only? Do you know if it's one of your "friends"? Who ever it is should have a) come to you first about it and b) left the journal if they were uncomfortable with what you were talking about!! It is such a shame. This is suppose to be a safe place for you to express yourself and you are being censored. I hope you find out who it is. :(
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cindy: NIP
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 15:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:NIP
i rarely make an entry friends-only; i have nothing to hide.


well i did catch quite a bit of flack in NursingbyDesign a month or so ago, but i thought that was resolved and over. not sure if it was someone there or just someone wandering across my journal.

whatever.
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nicole.
User: the_bluest_iris
Date: 2006-05-19 16:44 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
wow i'm so pissed.
i am going to write them.
what a bunch of idiots.. the person who turned you in and livejournal for writing you.
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 16:52 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
u should check out the awesome responses i am getting at boob nazis. i LOVE that community!
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R: feeding the babe
User: aftondays
Date: 2006-05-19 17:24 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:feeding the babe
This is what they say about the standards for default userpics:

"we require that your default userpic not contain anything too explicit. In particular, icons which are graphically sexual or violent in nature tend to be inappropriate for default userpics."

So they are saying it's sexual. I am so going to write to them.
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R: feeding the babe
User: aftondays
Date: 2006-05-19 17:36 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:feeding the babe
You should post this in breastfeeding, too, and get people to contact LJ. This isn't even inappropriate according to their own rules!
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R: feeding the babe
User: aftondays
Date: 2006-05-19 18:02 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:feeding the babe
Okay, here is what I just sent to feedback@livejournal.com:

To Whom It May Concern:

Recently one of my LJ "friends" (cali4niachef) was reported to the abuse team for her default userpic, which someone apparently found offensive. The abuse team agreed and threatened to suspend her account if she is unwilling to replace the userpic with something else.

The picture in question was a close-up of a baby at the breast. I am writing to respectfully present the opinion that it is not outside your terms of service to use such a photo in a default icon. Your TOS state: "...we require that your default userpic not contain anything too explicit. In particular, icons which are graphically sexual or violent in nature tend to be inappropriate for default userpics." Beyond that, your standards are not specific.

Breastfeeding is not a sexual act. I respect your right to run your site as you please, but I would expect that your TOS be clearer. By categorizing photos like the one I refer to here as "graphically sexual", you are perpetuating the belief that breastfeeding is dirty, shameful, and/or sexual, a belief which has led to millions of infants receiving less than optimal nourishment.

I implore you to reject the idea that breastfeeding is something to be hidden by either allowing such userpics to be kept or by rewording your TOS.

Sincerely,
Rachael C*******
aftondays
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 18:07 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
EXCELLENT AND WELL SAID!!

KUDOS!
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Megan
User: latinlover1130
Date: 2006-05-19 18:20 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
i am in shock.

i would like to write a letter as well. how do i do that? (do i email someone or send it through lj somehow?)

i plan on including that quote from the American Academy of Pediatrics in my letter/email b/c i love it so much and it makes such a profound point.

you should ask everyone in all the breastfeeding communities that you're involved in to make a stand with you. And communities like *stayathomemoms* and *toddlermommas*.

this has seriously got my blood boiling...i'm so ticked.
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cindy: nursing moment
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-19 18:26 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:nursing moment
send your letter to here: feedback@livejournal.com

i also posted this in breastfeeding, boob nazis and boobie bootcamp. they are in an uproar. they all are making their default icon a picture of them nursing. awesome! you should check out their comments.
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R: feeding the babe
User: aftondays
Date: 2006-05-19 20:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:feeding the babe
I just got the following response:

Dear LiveJournal user,

Thank you for your inquiry. Unfortunately, for confidentiality and privacy reasons, we are unable to accept complaints from anyone other than the individual(s) directly involved in the situation.

Having said that, LiveJournal's rules for default user pictures are stricter than those for non-default user pictures, as the default user picture is viewable in a much wider range of situations, including ones where a user may not be expecting nudity or other possibly inappropriate content. These rules exist for the sole purpose of ensuring that users can browse the "public" parts of the site (for example, the directory) without worrying about encountering "not-safe-for-work/public" situations. For this reason, LiveJournal's rules regarding default user pictures are generally restrictive than is strictly defined by obscenity laws.

LiveJournal does not restrict non-default user pictures in any way, beyond those that are illegal or which otherwise violate the Terms of Service. The usual remedy for this situation is to simply switch the default user picture to non-default -- that is, to select a new default, or have no default user picture at all.

Regards,
Douglas
LiveJournal Abuse Team


So I said:

Perhaps it would be appropriate, then, to update your TOS regarding appropriate default icons to include nudity. My main concern is that by disallowing icons such as the one in question based on your current stated standards for appropriateness ( i.e., nothing "graphically sexual or violent"), you are contributing to something harmful.
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Megan
User: latinlover1130
Date: 2006-05-20 10:46 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I got the exact same response.

Jerks.
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User: (Anonymous)
Date: 2006-05-19 21:00 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
What is so inappropriate about a mother feeding her baby????? We've all seen worse things!
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-20 04:05 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
who knows, its ridiculous! true, we all have seen MUCH worse things.
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is it any wonder i'm sane at all
User: delylah
Date: 2006-05-20 10:04 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Hi. I'm a mom to a 3 month old, and I've been kind of lurking at boob_nazis for the past few days just reading through some of the memory posts (very informative and helpful). I saw your post about the "inappropriate icon" and I wanted to ask, do you mind if I post a link to this entry in my journal? There are several moms-to-be and new moms on my list that I think would be interested (at least one of whom is a nursing mom, too). The request for you to change your icon is ridiculous. I hope they reconsider.
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-20 21:18 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
of course not.


this community is awesome,it is my favorite breastfeeding community :o)
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witch4cats
User: witch4cats
Date: 2006-05-20 13:09 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Let me play devil's advocate for a minute...while most Moms (including me)don't find breast feeding or your icon offensive, much of the general public is a)unimpressed by breast feeding (why? because they are not into it like you & your friends are), or b)while they may admire breastfeeding, they don't necessarily want to view it with their lunch (as is their right), or c) it is not their entire world and they just don't care...to me it's like the smoking in public issue (don't get excited, I'm not equating smoking with breastfeeding),there are many views on it. Keep the beauty and sanctity in it by being modest, positive, and diligent, not militant. Just change your default icon as requested and use your choice of icons for your entries...Love you
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MuseMama
User: anne_mommy
Date: 2006-05-20 15:22 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you on principle. They don't object to this for any other reason than it's a baby feeding from a breast. If it were a mother giving her baby a bottle, there would be no objection.

The problem doesn't lie with Cali4niachef's picture, but with the person viewing it who thinks it's explicit. There's nothing explicit about it. This shouldn't be a big deal to people. It's just a baby eating. LJ has stated that default pics shouldn't be sexual or violent. Hers is neither.

The icon isn't forcing anything on anyone. It's an expression she should be allowed to make as it's within the guidelines established by LJ.
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Jennifer
User: junipertree
Date: 2006-05-20 14:20 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
*sigh*

I'm sorry, that is just ridiculous.

By the way, I friended you, please tell me if that isn't okay. It's nice to know someone else that is (somewhat) local.
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-20 21:41 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
it is. i am so frustrated.

totally okay ;) maybe when i am up in northern DE for my OB appt we can meet up for coffee.
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toxique: Me & Kids
User: nsoroma79
Date: 2006-05-20 14:25 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Me & Kids
I heard about your situation from a friend of mine, and I wanted to see if LJ has come up with anything yet?

If I were you, I would go to the local news paper and possibly your local news.... that will get you some attention! :)

Good Luck,
Lorrie
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Jennifer
User: junipertree
Date: 2006-05-20 16:44 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I agree.

cali4niachef, let me know if you need any names or ideas for this.
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Smilingly stepping on thin ice
User: medicinal_mirth
Date: 2006-05-20 14:53 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Hi there. Sorry to drop in unannounced, but I heard about this situation through a friend's journal and just wanted to offer my support. I sent an email to LJ telling them I'm on your side, and I hope that they change this decision. It's ridiculous and insulting. I'm so sorry you're being put through this.
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cindy
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-20 21:43 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
thank you so much for your support.




the funny thing is that isn't even me or my baby.
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Mildred: mad cows
User: the_gypsy_queen
Date: 2006-05-20 15:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:mad cows
WTF indeed!!!

What about the sadistic, bloody, or highly sexual icons????

*grrr*
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MuseMama
User: anne_mommy
Date: 2006-05-20 15:24 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I posted about this on my LJ, and have written a couple of e-mails now. LJ was kind enough to inform me that their minds wouldn't be changed by an e-mail write in campaign, which I found arrogant, dismissive, and rude. But I explained AGAIN that what I want is not information specific to your case, but a clarification of LJ's policies regarding default user pics.

Please let us know what happens!
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User: nachtisch
Date: 2006-05-20 20:12 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I'm so disappointed in LJ. :/

We've all got your back.
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Jenoveva
User: jenoveva
Date: 2006-05-20 20:32 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I would have expected this kind of thinking back in the '70's when I nursed my kids! I would have thought things had improved over time. In most states, it is illegal to ban breastfeeding in public. And....how many more years will have to pass before MEN stop thinking of breasts as SEXUAL objects? Good grief..Well, take it from this former childbirth educator, patient advocate and L&D nurse, the news media is an EXCELLENT means of pressuring people into changing their tunes! I am so ashamed of LJ's thinking on this! You have done no wrong...Always and forever be proud that you are nursing your little ones!!
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cindy: jim
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-21 12:58 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:jim
thank you very much.
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User: nachtisch
Date: 2006-05-20 20:37 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

P.S. There's a reporter at CNN who wants to hear about these kind of things as they come up. Let me know and I'll see if I can pass the story on.
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Foul projectile discharge alert!: Anagram
User: hardvice
Date: 2006-05-20 21:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:Anagram
Hey Cindy,

I am the one who reported it. I wanted to apologise personally for what's happened since. (If you want to read the whole story of my own interaction with the idiots in LJ Abuse, and how you became unwillingly involved in it, it's here).

To be honest, I chose breastfeeding icons for two reasons: one, I figured even LJA wasn't dumb enough to equate "breastfeeding" with "graphically sexual", and two, I knew if they did, you guys would stand up to them. I certainly underestimated their stupidity, but not your resolve.

I also wanted you to know that I personally don't think breastfeeding is filthy or disgusting. Really, I chose breastfeeding because I thought it would help LJA realise that breasts aren't filthy or disgusting, either. I also wanted you to know that the minute LJA backed down I closed all of my open Abuse tickets and expected that to be the end of the matter. I am truly sorry that it wasn't, and that you are now paying the price for the abuse team's incompetence and arbitrariness.
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cindy: nursing moment
User: cali4niachef
Date: 2006-05-21 12:56 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:nursing moment
i read your post in your LJ and how it all went down. i see the point you were trying to make, i get it.

however, i am not sure if you in particular pointed out specific boob nazis memebers to LJ abuse to make an example or if they themselves choose myself and other boob nazis and deemed our icons "sexually explicit and inappropriate". could you please let me know.

if you did point specific members i believe it would've been best on all of us if you had copy and pasted user icons pictures and sent just those to LJ abuse. that way no one in specific would've been targeted.


i hope you are pleased with the results.





i am tired now.

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boomchica
User: boomchica
Date: 2006-05-23 18:21 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
that's really sad.
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User: thingamababy
Date: 2006-05-24 16:44 (UTC)
Subject: There's more to life than LJ
For what it's worth, I contacted one of the owners of parenting site Minti.com (which hosts free blogs) and they have no problem with users posting their own breastfeeding photos. I'm not suggesting people leave LJ because you lose the networking functionality of people you know here (unless you bring them with you), but it's an option. It's also a reality check that a company can be OK with, and really, accepting on this issue.
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